Tom Beats Father Time
Okay. This will be my nicest post to Tom Brady. I still think he’s a big old knob and an annoying crypto shill snake oil salesman and I will still mock him at every chance I get, but if this is truly it, we’ve just witnessed the end of probably the most notable career any of us will ever see, and that’s worthy of note.
I saw the GOAT talk start to really pick up steam for Tom after he won the 4th ring after beating the Seahawks. Some folks saw him as the best before that ring, but after he officially tied Montana the chatter really turned in his favor. I did not agree. I became somewhat known here for purposefully trolling Pats fans about it because Pats fans are hilariously insecure and poking them with a stick is always a good time, but I also didn’t actually think he was the best. I’ve always maintained that Peyton was the best I ever saw play the position. Brady was an incredible executor under center, but Peyton was an innovator. He changed the way the position was played with his audibles. Peyton was incredible to watch. Brady was more consistent, rarely making mistakes and always playing at a high level, and Peyton certainly had lower lows, but he had higher highs. That was what made the difference for me. I found Brady boring.
But what made Brady special was really after that 4th ring. Brady just…kept going. I viewed Tom as excellent, maybe the best executor at the QB position, but his real innovation was simply never slowing down. Every QB faces the harsh realities of time towards the end. Peyton went out with a Super Bowl win carried on the back of the defense. He could barely throw a ball. Drew Brees’s final season was depressing and in his final game, against Brady, his arm looked shot. Big Ben spent the last two years throwing 2-yard checkdowns in half a second from the snap because he couldn’t do anything else. Brett Favre, the previous reigning champion of old men, looked like a zombie in his final season. Brady ended his career by completing a massive comeback that fell just short due to the defense letting him down. He looked like a better QB this year than he looked like a decade ago. I have no trouble believing that Tom could play for at least another 2 seasons like this. He just…never stopped being great. Time never got him. He’s 44 and he’s walking away by choice, not because he can’t do it.
I’m actually really pissed we never got to see old Tom spend a year or two looking like a wet noodle. It was the one thing we were looking forward to and he is going to deny us the pleasure.
So ends the greatest football career we will ever see. 7 championships over two decades and two teams. Basically every passing record you can own. An absurd level of accolades, all deserved. You’d have to be stubborn to not think he’s the best after the 5th ring, crazy to think he wasn’t the best after the 6th, and just a downright lunatic to watch him go to Tampa and win one without Belichick and still put him anywhere but 1st. He’s not the greatest athlete of all time, but he’s the best football player of all time. Nobody played the position as well as he did, as long as he did. Rodgers is still good but he’d have to win every Super Bowl from here out till he’s 45 to stand above Tom.
I remember being really impressed with him in 2001, watching him take the Patriots to the top. I can’t believe I watched him for over 20 more years. I am genuinely in awe of what he managed to pull off. Divorced from any opinions you have of him as a person, there’s never been a better football player. I salute that football player, and it’s kind of silly we have to wait another 5 years to put him in the Hall of Fame. Just stick him in now. Tom Brady is the GOAT.
It’s going to be weird next year without him.
As a side note, I want to point out that since he retired the same year as Ben Roethlisberger, now Big Ben’s retirement party and Hall of Fame induction will be completely overshadowed. Ben is now officially the “other QB” in the presumed 2026 HoF class. Brady spent his career owning Ben and the Steelers, and he did it one more time for the road. Respect, Tom.
Now enjoy retirement and stop shilling crypto at me.
EDIT: He unretired 2 months later the fucking piece of shit
The thing I always like to point to is the fact that the Brady vs Manning debate was still a very legitimate thing after Peyton called it quits in 2016. Tom Brady proceeded to put together a Hall of Fame career in the 6 years following his retirement.
After seeing the way that other guys have gone out, I’m very glad that I didn’t have to see that with Tom Brady. I grew up disliking Peyton, but watching a guy that you truly feared become a mediocre shell of themselves is a painful thing to witness, and it absolutely sucked watching Peyton struggle to throw a football at the end, even if he rode off into the sunset. The same goes for Brees, Roethlisberger, and even Rivers (though Rivers at least went out respectably with Indy). I can’t imagine how it would have felt watching someone you actually like and root for go through the same thing. All of those guys made the mistake of retiring one or two years too late so they didn’t retire too soon. Tom Brady chose to go out on his terms even when he still had it.
His last game might have been ugly, he is definitely an annoying crypto shill now, and heay be selling severely overpriced clothing ($95 for a pear of sweatpants with ‘BRADY’ on them? Really?), but that man had one helluva career, and I’m glad I got to witness it.
Tom was amazing during those final 6 years, but it wasn’t a hall of fame career by itself. You would have to be absurdly good to make it in the hall for just six years as a QB.
Three Superbowls on two teams and probably should have had two MVPs (as Fraudgers will erroneously win it over him this year), several first team All-Pros, and set multiple passing records in that span. That stretch is better than Big Ben’s entire career
I’m not really sure why people get so upset about quarterbacks with a disappointing playoff performance getting the regular season MVP. Happened with Peyton too. It is a regular season award voted on before the playoffs. Rodgers had an MVP-caliber regular season. Yes, Brady also had an MVP-caliber regular season. If we’d known at the end of the regular season that he was going to retire the MVP would go to him. But acting like it’s a travesty that Rodgers will get it is something I don’t understand
Joe Burrow was legitimately the 2nd best QB this year, even before the playoffs. If not Rodgers, he should be MVP. I don’t know if anyone noticed though.
I didn’t intent to debate that point, but just to defend why I said that;
In that timespan, Brady was a:
– 3x Super Bowl Champ (2x SBMVP)
– 2x AFC Champ
– 1x NFC Champ
– 4x Pro Bowl
– 2x All-Pro
– 1x MVP
– 1x OPOY
– 2x passing yard leader
– 1x pass TD leader
Also set the record for best single season TD/INT ratio of all time (28/2) during that stretch as well, while throwing for 26000 yards (4.4k per season) and 196 TDs (33 per season). For reference, Troy Aikman finished with 32000 yards and 165 TDs in his full career (now to be fair, I think he’s arguably the worst QB to ever make the Hall, and I’m cheating by cross-comparing eras, but I’m just trying to put it into perspective how absurd Brady’s numbers were in this stretch). I guess it would be somewhat of a stretch, but he certainly has a case for it.
Just the first point would make him a shoe-in for the Hall let’s be honest
Yeah. The standard for all QBs trying to make the Hall of Fame is Super Bowl wins. If you have at least 3 rings, you’re 100% a lock to get in, and that precedent was set by Troy Aikman. It’s why people now genuinely argue that Brady would have been a Hall of Famer had he retired after 2006 despite not having the numbers nor accolades separate of Super Bowl wins (and wins in general) to really deserve that honor.
But in that span, his total sum stats aren’t otherwordly to get him in for having such a short career.
26.4k passing yards
196 TD
100 rating
65.5% CMP
Those are very good numbers, but if someone’s career was only 6 years, that’s not enough to get in the hall given how inflated passing numbers are in this era. Period. Heck, Joe Flacco has a super bowl win and 41k yards, he’s clearly not a hall of famer.
Well, I kind of addressed this. Like I said, those numbers are comparable to a hall of famer (the worst HoF’er, but still a HoF’er), and when paired with non-statistical accolades (MVPs, All-Pros, Pro Bowls, etc.), yeah, I think you can genuinely make that argument. The problem with what you did here is that you only took the statistical side of things without looking at everything else that he did.
Sure, statistically, he’s comparable to Joe Flacco’s full career, but he has more Super Bowl wins, SBMVPs, MVPs, All-Pros, Pro Bowls, on top of having a record-breaking single-season, a 5000 yard season, and multiple seasons in which he led the league in passing yards or passing TDs. Things Joe Flacco did not do and things that also correlate heavily with making the Hall of Fame. I’ll concede that it’s a stretch to call that a hall of fame career, but given the criteria that we already sort of know to make the HoF, I don’t think it’s that much of a reach to call it a HoF career.
People were already talking about Brady being a Hall of Famer after his first 3 SBs, when he was a much less impressive QB, even before the 2007 run. If you threw his post 2016 career on a regular QB he’d be a hall of famer on the 3 rings alone and if the lack of yards/tds held him back at all it would make him simply not first ballot
Brady is a great QB no doubt. I don’t understand why people feel the need to invent ridiculous hyperboles about his career when the actual truth of what he did is already so impressive.
It’s really not a hyperbole when you look at the body of work and cross-compare it to other Hall of Famers lol. There are guys with shorter stretches of dominance that have gotten in. Brady had a 6 year run that is as good as, if not better than guys already there.
You can’t straight up cross-compare eras like that though. If a hypothetical QB from this era had those numbers, they should absolutely not be getting in the hall. We debate over Eli right now, this six-year player would have no shot.
That’s the standard that the Hall set by letting certain guys in though. With that sort of resume, I would argue that a hypothetical QB would have a very strong case given not only team success, but the individual accolades and records. Eli isn’t comparable since he doesn’t have the individual accolades like MVPs or All-Pros, nor does he hold any notable records as a passer.
The closest comparison right now might be Patrick Mahomes, and even then, he only has 1 Super Bowl win. Of course there’s the obvious caveat that he’s only played 4 seasons rather than 6, but he has the stats, records, accolades, and team success to make a case. I’m not arguing either way for him, but I’m saying that there is no good comparison to a career like that.
The reason Eli is a debate right now is his rings. Without the Rings he’s Romo or Rivers, a good QB that might never sniff the hall because he never won anything. Those rings mean everything, even in today’s more stat-driven league. Rings get remembered. Old Brady has 3 rings. He’d be in the conversation every year
TBH, I briefly considered that this Alex Smith is the NFL’s Alex Smith. It made his arguing that Old Brady doesn’t deserve to be the HoF (when he clearly does) based solely on stats that much more entertaining…
Well played, Alex. Well played.
No such thing as the GoAt.
>best football player of all time
he’s absolutely the GOAT qb but i still maintain that jerry rice takes the crown for best athlete ever to play in the NFL
My favourite Jerry Rice record – he caught a pass in every game from 1987 – 2003.
It’s not entirely relevant to Brady, but I’m pointing it out just for the record. Peyton had nearly career-ending neck surgery and every single pass he threw as a Bronco was done with a significant amount of feeling gone from most of the fingers on his throwing hand. Brees’ final game last year was done just coming back from 11 broken ribs and a punctured lung. Of course he could barely throw a ball. That is not to take anything away from Shady, but Brees and Peyton were more than just guys who flamed out suddenly to old age.
Also, and I don’t just say this because I love dunking on the man, but I do NOT, for the life of me, understand the obsession with finding a GOAT in football. Sports like baseball, regardless of where you play in the field – at least everyone bats the same way. In basketball, regardless of your position, everyone can touch the ball and shoot from the same spots on the field.
Football is a giant mess of cogs and gears and people who are not playing with the same advantages and disadvantages. If you make Brady play a game with the best OL, and then make him play the same game with third string backups, he will NOT perform the same. So I always find it weird that we attach individual accolades to the most team-centric part of the sport – Super Bowl rings. If Vinatieri had 3 bad kicks, and a few plays that Tommy wasn’t involved in AT ALL didn’t bounce his way, he could have 0 Super Bowl rings. Would he be the GOAT if he was winless in the Super Bowl? And the fact that you could change that outcome with just a handful of plays that he’s not even part of? I dunno. He’s the most ACCOMPLISHED player ever. Can’t the world just leave it at that? I just think it’s way too dumbed down to say Moar Rings = Moar Goat.
You make a great point about why the later seasons of Brees’s and Peyton’s careers were less than stellar, but that actually showcases one of Brady’s most important and underappreciated skills. The man knows how to avoid injury. From knowing when to just take the sack to putting actual strategy into how he fell it was no coincidence that the one major injury of his entire career was due to the inescapable beast known as Bernard “the Patriot Slayer” Pollard.
In theory, I think you can take that to a certain point, but I don’t think it accounts for Brady’s injury avoidance. Broken ribs that puncture your lung, a broken leg like Alex Smith had… there’s no skill to avoiding those. This is a game of bodies colliding all over the place, and you can’t always pick how you fall, so I think a lot of it comes down to dumb luck and some good genes. Eli never missed one game to injury, but I don’t think he was very adept at falling, and he certainly didn’t turn his body into a shrine, lol. Dude took a lot of sacks, and I’m pretty sure his brain wasn’t doing anything special when EliFace kicked in. Some guys just have bad luck, or in the case of Romo, a bad back.
To be clear, I am not trying to start a Brady GOAT debate, but I would like to answer this: “He’s the most ACCOMPLISHED player ever. Can’t the world just leave it at that?”
The reason why people aren’t receptive to this statement is because, at this point, it comes off more like a backhanded compliment rather than a point on Brady’s ability as a passer. I would go so far as to say that it is not even a compliment at all, but rather just a basic fact. Brady is quite literally the most accomplished player of all time, and it’s impossible to deny that at this point, but that statement doesn’t even comment on whether whoever says it believes Brady to be a great player, let alone the greatest/best player ever, which is the entire debate at hand. And given that this sentiment is usually expressed by people who don’t think Brady is the best to ever play, it just sounds like a way to say something that sounds positive about the guy without actually praising his abilities. Basically, by itself, there’s nothing wrong thinking this, but oftentimes it’s framed as, “Well, Brady is the most ACCOMPLISHED QB of all time, *but* he’s not the GOAT.” so it has taken on a rather negative connotation. It’s kind of similar to saying, “Brady only has 7 rings.” On the surface, that sounds like it should be a compliment, but the reality is that it actually minimizes just how great Tom Brady was as a player.
That being said, I get where you’re coming from with regard to arguing the best football players ever. It’s impossible since there is no way to reasonably compare any two positions on the field. Sure, QBs are the most valuable position on any football team, but they are heavily dependent on their surroundings. They need guys to block for them and guys to catch their passes. Their numbers are entirely dependent on other players (unless you’re a Lamar Jackson/Michael Vick type), so it is very weird to me to try to argue that any QB can be the GOAT NFL player. I’m personally of the opinion that QBs shouldn’t even be considered for it, and that isn’t exactly what people consider a popular take haha. It’s why I prefer to rank guys by position. I guess it’s just harder to type out, “Brady is the best/greatest QB of all time.” so people shortcut it and say GOAT, which leads to a whole lotta confusion.
I think the nature of football also means it’s hard for anyone other than the QB to be the greatest. I agree with all of what you’re saying otherwise (but would also like to point out that if a couple of freaky plays go the other way, maybe you’re talking about Brady having 10 or even 14 rings). But nobody else on the field touches the football on *every* offensive play (and controls something about the result of it). Even the best WR or RB might have 30+ snaps per game where their only purpose was to be a decoy to distract a defender from the actual play. No matter how good you are at that, it’s hard to put it at the same level of impact as what a QB has.
I agree with you there. It’s a two way street with that debate. The QB arguably has the most control/influence over the outcome of the game, but at the same time, everything they do is heavily dependent on someone else. I might lean towards not crowning any QB as the GOAT NFL player but I totally understand why people do, and why it’s the more popular take.
I opted not to discuss the hypothetical scenarios that were mentioned just because, like I said, I’m not really trying to get into a “Brady GOAT”/Brady vs Manning debate. It’s been exhausted at this point and I highly doubt anyone is going to change their opinion on the subject lol. There’s likely an alternate universe where Brady is 0/10 in Super Bowls and a complete meme, and there’s another Universe where the Manning Family doesn’t exist and Brady is a 15x Super Bowl champ as well as the de facto NFL commissioner. The bottom line is that we’re discussing the Tom Brady of this universe, and to me, that version of him is the best QB of all time. Not everyone agrees with that and it’s fine. I don’t feel like debating it.
I agree with what you’re saying, and I wish more people took that stance, because then we could acknowledge the shorthand for what it is, and not treat is as some arbitrary objective measure of who is better than who. But the problem I personally have with the argument is a lot of people use it in favor of Brady, but then it completely implodes when you apply it anywhere else.
Let’s use an example. Many who call Brady the GOAT cite the ungodly # of Super Bowl rings he has. Ok, so is the # of Super Bowl rings is the stick by which we measure GOATitude? Cool. That means Trent Dilfer is GOATier than Dan Marino, because he has more rings. It also means Eli is tied with Peyton & Big Ben as the GOATiest QBs since 2000 not named Brady. So Eli is better than Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, and others.
I don’t think anybody in their right mind is going to say Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino. So now the argument using rings has big holes in it. And any other argument is going to have the same flaws, because a team sport with so many people cannot have one singular metric to evaluate worth, not in the same way golf or tennis can. And now that we’re on a 17-game season, individual metrics are completely broken when comparing to past players, so we can’t even compare Peyton or Brady to what the new guys are going to do moving forward.
I get why people insist on doing it, I just wish they would acknowledge at the end of the day it is ENTIRELY subjective. To me, a 1000% compleeeeeeeeeetely objective and thoroughly unnnnnnbiased Giants fan (lololol), Eli is better than Brady, because he beat him twice in the big game. Even though they never directly faced off, I’ve determined Eli is better, and there’s no stat I can be given or provide to anyone else to prove or disprove it.
Maybe if people just got in the habit of saying, “So’n’so is *MY* GOAT.” It acknowledges the greatness that’s intrinsic to each of us as a fan.
Let me just say that I absolutely cannot stand the rings argument. I have always hated the rings argument. And I hate the media and anyone that throws out the rings argument whenever they are making an argument in favor of Tom Brady. To me, it’s such a reductive way of looking at not only Brady’s career, but the career of any all-time great passer. Peyton Manning was not any less great because he only won 2 Super Bowls, nor was Dan Marino because he won zero. Winning the Super Bowl is hard, requires a lot of great moving parts, and a decent bit of luck on top of that, plus more. The guys that have won 3 or more rings were usually the guys that were playing on great teams for most of their careers. That isn’t to say that guys like Montana and Brady didn’t elevate their teams, but they weren’t the sole reason for their success.
To me, Super Bowls should be viewed as an additional argument, not your ENTIRE case for or against some guy, and it gets frustrating seeing people just respond with, “Well Brady has 7 rings” like it’s some be-all, end-all point that proves he’s the best, especially when you look at games like Super Bowl 53 where he played like garbage and won off the back of a herculean effort by his defense. It just makes no sense. Sorry for the rant, but this stuff just bothers me, and I see all too often from Brady fans that I talk with.
When it comes to discourse, I think the main problem is that people take this stuff way too personally. Fans will see someone giving a less than flattering opinion about their guy and take it as an attack on their character. Like no, it’s a subjective argument. There can be a general agreement, but at the end of the day, not every fan is going to think that Tom Brady is the best to ever play. Not every NBA fan thinks Michael Jordan is the GOAT. Baseball fans barely have a consensus on who the MLB’s GOAT is. The only major sport where everyone seems to agree on this is Hockey, and even then I’m sure there are a few contrarians that will argue someone out there is better than Gretzky (they’re crazy btw, but I digress). Would I love for everyone to agree that Brady is the best? Damn right. Do I care if they don’t? No. It’s their opinion on an argument that will likely change in the next 20 years anyway. Why get mad about it?
*deep breath* With all that being said, I take offense to the Eli > Brady remarks there, buddy. You better watch yourself.
Some contrarian people argue Lemieux because he has a better PPG (at first retirement) and cancer/injury factor, I think.
I know we got off on the wrong foot during our first chat a year or two ago (time eludes me during the pandemic), but I gotta say, you have proven yourself to be a vastly more open-minded and objectively thoughtful Pats fan than any of the 15-20 inlaws and coworkers of mine. Just wanted to give you some props, man. You deserve them.
I’m totally with you on the SB argument, specifically because of how easily it does fall apart. And as much as everyone sits here and says we’ll never see another Tom Brady, oh, we will. The league will continue to push for better safety measures and more offensive output, because players on the field provide more revenue than players on IR. When they get to 18-20 games per season, every single player of yesterday will be buried statistically, and comparing a Peyton or a Montana to active rosters will be pointless. QBs will hang around longer and longer, and at some point in the next 20 years, I wouldn’t be shocked if we see someone like Burrow or Mahomes get 6 rings.
I agree, sports fans take everything way too personally. Like, the kerfluffle coming back again soon whether Eli is a HoFer. I really don’t care either way, I’ll be happy if he gets in but I can understand why he might not. But seeing how ENRAGED everyone gets for or against him. As if voting him in or not will make the entire Hall of Fame collapse in upon itself.
My choice for GOAT of the NFL is Peyton, and it’s not even for the statistical output, it’s for what that dude did AFTER having his neck fused and losing most of the feeling in the fingers on his throwing hand. That is a significant handicap, and the fact that he even played again, let alone played at a significant level… that was just something else entirely. How quickly his arm collapsed during that Super Bowl run just drives the point home even more. That guy was running on spit and popsicle sticks those last few years in Denver.
Nah that was mostly on me. I took offense to an obvious joke and acted like an asshole, and honestly I’m still embarrassed about that. I know it doesn’t mean much saying it now, but I apologize for I acted and I’m glad we were able to move past it.
The Eli HoF argument is an interesting one, and what I’d recommend that you point to now (especially if you’re looking to ruffle some feathers) is Brady’s career from 2001 to 2006. I had a back and forth up top about Brady’s last 6 years as a passer being considered an HoF career–a stretch that was dense with accolades and personal records, and despite that I still conceded that it is a stretch to call it HoF worthy. People genuinely argue that Brady’s career from 2001-2006 is Hall of Fame worthy. A six year stretch where he averaged 3.5k yards and 25 TDs per season and had an 88 RTG, while earning 0 MVPs, 1 All-Pro and 3 Pro Bowl nods. If people think that is a Hall of Fame career on the basis of his Super Bowl wins, then they have to agree that Eli Manning is a Hall of Famer at that point. I might personally lean towards Eli not being a Hall of Famer, but if people are going to push the “Brady has 3 HoF careers in one” narrative, then I have to go by that criteria. I know it’s kind of unrelated to the point, but hey, why not give some extra arguments?
What Peyton did following his neck surgery might be the most impressive thing I’ve witnessed in all my time watching the NFL. I was too young (and biased) to really appreciate it back then, but when I go back and rewatch his tape from Denver, it’s unbelievable. It was obvious that his arm and throwing ability was nowhere near the same anymore, but he more than made up for it with his incredible ball-placement and decision-making skills. Seriously, even in 2013–a season where he broke the TD and yardage record, he was throwing ducks… and defenses still could not stop it. I’m still very much of the opinion that Denver does not win the Super Bowl in 2015-16 without Peyton Manning leading the charge. His passing ability may have completely diminished by that point, but his football IQ and his leadership was sorely needed, and Brock Osweiler would not have been able to get them past Pittsburgh, let alone New England.
Tom Brady might be my pick for the best QB of all time, but Peyton Manning is and will always be right there with him, and it’s a shame that a fluke neck injury was the only thing stopping him from potentially playing into his 40s. Brady might have remained near his physical peak for far longer, but unless he actually made it to 50, I don’t think any QB will ever top what Peyton pulled off in Denver those final few years.
I’ll go contrarian on the Gretzky issue.
Gretzky was on 4 Stanley Cup winning Oilers teams. Mark Messier was on those four teams too. Plus one more with the Oilers the team *without* Gretzky. Plus another one with the Rangers. Six total.
The Rangers win broke a streak of futility that spanned the Original Six era. And Messier did it by convincing the otherwise cupless Mike Keenan to bring in a bunch of his Oiler buddies, including his old line mate Glenn Anderson and noted head case Esa Tikkanen.
Messier is more like Brady, and Gretzky is more like Peyton.
LOL, it’s all good. I totally understand in hindsight why you thought I was comparing you to Drip Brainless, and that is one of the single most offensive things you can do to someone. X’D
My basic argument with people on Eli is that he’s all f-ing over the place. And there’s no better QB to have their wins and losses perfectly in balance to reflect that. There is not one single more flummoxingly hilarious body of NFL work that I’ve seen. You can compile a list of a dozen or stats for him that would lead you to believe he’s pure GARBAGE, but then you can compile another list of a dozen or so stats for him that nobody else in the league can even approach. I haven’t heard the “Brady is 3 HoF Careers In One” angle, but I also haven’t had to see my inlaws or coworkers in person for almost 2 years, so they haven’t had much of an opportunity to bring it up. XD
I perused the thread you guys had above, but opted against dipping my toe into that pool. If the stats were provided in a blind taste test without revealing it was only a 6-year career, a strong case could be made for it. I think it being “only” 6 years would kick him from being considered first ballot, but I’d take those 6 years in a heartbeat for Daniel Jones, lol.
Regarding Peyton, it would have been really interesting, if his neck held out, what the last few years might have looked like. We might have seen a Bucs-v-Broncs Brady/Manning Super Bowl! That would have been fun. Alas.
Only reason he has the records is the extra seasons. Put him back in Marino’s far more smashmouth day and see how it would have gone.
Alternatively, put prime Marino in the league of the past two decades, where the rules were a damn sight more passer-friendly, and watch #13 tear it up like a 2017 presidential document. 5,084 yards? He’d have hit 6,000.
(Actually, he’d probably have demanded a trade after half of the Cam Cameron season, gone to Denver or something and pissed all over Elway’s ring total.)
He was the same as Jordan in that he was that good, he made the sport boring. But the one thing about Chinny McSmug is that one diamond on those rings will forever be in the shape of an asterisk.
Marino played mostly against linemen who weighed 260 and ran a 5.3 40 – men who were bigger and faster than average, but still conclusively human.
Brady spent his last few seasons staring down the likes of Aaron Donald, Micah Parsons and Von Miller – men who are closer in size and athleticism to Olympian gods than to normal humans.
All this talk about how the NFL was more “smashmouth” back then doesn’t count for much when the guys playing now don’t even need a full head of steam to cripple an average person just by running into them.
While what you’re saying is generally true – guys are bigger, stronger, and faster now – his argument is still completely valid. The rules have been heavily changed now to protect the QB and promote offense. They may have just been “strong humans” back in the day, but they could smash your helmet, piledrive you into the grass, and crush you beneath them during tackles. That is infinitely more punishing than Olympian Gods who can’t touch your head, can’t throw you to the ground, and can’t slam on top of you for some extra damage. And that’s not even taking into account the threadbare protection they had back then vs today.
I mean, just look at this hit by itself:
https://youtu.be/Ugsih3dhIpQ?t=102
Guy is leading with his helmet, aiming for Steve Bartkowski’s head area, arguably launching himself, and poor Steve’s head is whipped forward, then slaaaaams backward into the grass. For extra hilarity, you can hear the announcer say, “That’s a good solid legal tackle.” His mind knows what he just watched ain’t right, so he has to immediately placate himself and the audience. You try a tackle like this today, they’ll banish you.
This especially, many have been going for “bigger and stronger” but they tend to ignore all the rule changes that were made over the decades. Not to mention for one to bring up Andrew Luck (in YT comments section), his case was a result of trying to carry a piece of shit team that can screw over anyone. One who wants to go “But Andrew Luck…” needs to fuck off!
P.S. Kiss my asterisk
I never really understood why a Giants fan would hate Brady
The seething hatred between MA and NY transcends mere sports. In fact, said hatred is a bit of a sport all its own.
I’ve often wondered that too. And why you’d hate on the crypto thing. It’s not for me at this stage, but I live in the USA, which is currently still a republic / democracy. Put me in some other countries and I’d already be dealing in it, and to think that some form of iit isn’t going to be a thing that has a huge impact in the future is just willfully burying your head in the sand or resisting change.
Any chance you’ll make a comic about Brady’s college days when Drew Henson was the starter? Mostly remember the guy when he was a Yankees call up though.
I actually feel sad Brady is gone even though he owned us for most of his career. Brady’s success will never be replicated again, and feels so weird to be in an NFL era without Tom Brady.
I’m kind of bummed, too. He set some meaningful records this year (pretty much all the ones he didn’t already have). Next year was supposed to be his last hurrah and and a season solely to pad those ridiculous stats.
That frame were Father Time does the flying kick on Brady…
Thats a “leg” that would give Liefeld a nightmare 😀
That frame were FatherTime is doing the fly kick on Brady….that leg is truly “Liefeld-ian” ;D
As a Pats/Brady fan that has been following this comic since close to the beginning this may be my favorite comic you’ve ever made. That final frame is man cave worthy on its own. Do you have a method of doing reprints other than me just saving the image?
I’ve seen it suggested that most great QBs don’t actually fall off. They just retire after one bad season because they have been playing at such a high level for so long that they assume the bad season is a trend instead of a blip. There are obvious exceptions, like Peyton and Ben, where the physical breakdown was prolonged and visible, but it’s entirely possible that most great QBs could do what Brady did if they were as psychotically competitive as he is.
We’ll never really know, but it’s entirely possible the reason Father Time wins in the end isn’t because of a physical breakdown, but because once they get close to 40 these guys’ priorities shift and they just don’t feel like doing it anymore after they experience a bad season.
Out of curiosity Dave, Who would you put as the greatest athlete of all time?
For my money it’s a toss up between Wayne Gretzky and Mondo Duplantis. Simone Biles comes close, I’d prolly put her at 3rd after those two, and then Brady at a comfortable 4th.
That question is fraught with bias. It depends on what particularly you are into. Aladár Gerevich dominated international competition. in a way Tom Brady and Wayne Gretzky could only dream of ruling there respective sports. He even won an Olympic gold medal at the age of 51. But I wouldn’t expect a non-dork to be familiar with sabre fencers born before WWI so that’s probably a hard sell.
Just sticking with the Olympics, why would you mention Simone Biles, but not Michael Phelps? Phelps has 3 times as many gold medals as Biles has medals total.
Soccer is the most popular sport world wide (and it is not even close) so the greatest athlete of all time probably has to be a soccer player. But then what about things like iron man events or decathlons? Those athletes have toe excel at multiple disciplines. In a way, isn’t that more impressive than single sport dominance?
I see where you’re coming from. And you’re absolutely correct that this question is fraught with bias. I think of this question generally in 3 ways:
1) Did the athlete change the way the game was played?
2) How statistically dominant was the player?
3) How “great” were they? Will there ever be another athlete like them? (this is more subjective)
This question has answers upon answers and there are probably 50 to 100 athletes that can lay claim to the title of Greatest athlete. My personal opinion (bring Gretzky or Mondo) comes down to the following:
Gretzky has more points than any player in NHL history. Moreover, if you removed every goal he ever scored, he STILL would have more points than anyone in NHL history. That is such a bonkers statistic I’m shocked it doesn’t get brought up more. He has 4 Stanley cups, and completely revolutionized the way that hockey is played in terms of passing the puck, positioning yourself off of the puck, and thinking several steps ahead of the current play. There will never ever be another player like Gretzky. Also, as an aside, Gretzky is an amazing human being. I know that doesn’t really effect how he was as an athlete, but I think it’s important to mention.
I am a NCAA Pole Vaulter. I love the pole vault, so I’m biased in this pick; Armondo Duplantis is the current world record holder, and he is JUST. DIFFERENT. He does things with the vault that no vaulter has ever done before, and he does it with a mastery that’s envious. Moreover, he’s 22. He is one year older than me. He already had a gold medal. The pole vault is an incredibly hard event, Imagine taking the technical mastery of a pro golfer and combining that with the “don’t think, just go” of something like bungee jumping. It takes a very unique type of mental makeup to be great.
Biles is great, but (mind you, I’m no gymnast) I don’t think I can as definitively say that there will never be another like her. Same with Phelps; there’s that women’s swimmer (I can’t recall her name) Who just keeps smashing her own world records. Brady is excellent, but I just don’t think I can put him in the same echelon as these other earth-shattering game changing athletes. He’s up there, but not in the same way as a Gretzky or Mondo.
Again, I don’t think there’s a right answer, but this is my take on it.
By that criteria I think Barry Bonds deserves to be in the discussion. Dorktown did a video where they removed every hit he ever had. Just on walks and hit by pitch he got on base often enough to be an All-Star.
Barry Bonds took steroids, that is why he isn’t in the discussion
Not sure why there is no reply button on Pessimist Texans Fan’s comment below yours, but I just wanted to add that the Dorktown video made the case that Barry Bonds was well on his way to becoming the greatest baseball player of all time well BEFORE it was obvious that he was using steroids.
Its weird that you mention someone so young as Duplantis when Sergey Bubka exists in literaly the same discipline. Yeah I know Duplantis holds the WR and hes still so young and yadayadayada but hes not even on the same planet as Bubka (he might get there one day but its way too early to tell)
Sergey moved the WR from 5.83 to 6.14 over the span of a decade, beating only himself about 15 times (there was one french guy iirc who snuck one in but otherwise they were all his own records)
Thats 31cm all by himself in an era when the other competitors managed to do maybe 4 or 5cm over the span of their carreers. The pole vault WC was literaly the Bubka invitational for 15 years during his reign where the other guys just showed up to fight for silver. In most of the events Bubka didnt even start jumping for real (save for some qualification jumps he had to do) until there was like 5 guys left. He won the WC 6 times IN A ROW, something no one else has done in any discipline as far as im aware. The only thing he didnt utterly dominate during his career were the olympics because the soviets boycotted 84, whatever the fuck happend to him in 92 (failed 3 trys on 5.70&5.75 way below his usual competition form) and then in 96 he injured himself during warmups. He “only” won Seoul in 88 with an olympic record of 5.90 at the time.
So yeah, we can talk about Duplantis again if he keeps up his form for another decade or so and moves the WR up another 25cm…..which sounds insane in itself, since Bubka retired the WR has moved a whole 4cms in the last 21 years
There not being a right answer is why the question is so fun to discuss though, isn’t it?
The greatest athlete is kind of an impossible question because it feels like everyone has a different definition of athlete. Is it based around career accomplishments or physical ability? Like Brady’s not much of an athlete in the physical sense but his career accomplishments are off the charts. Can we really give the best award to a player on a team sport, where so much success comes with the assistance of others, like Gretzky?
My brain has always settled on Serena Williams when asked but I don’t really have an answer. As far as team sport GOATs go, I think the Gretzky deserves the honor
Agree on Gretzky. He’s just untouchable with regards to hockey records. No one will ever equal some of those. Team wise, he being present took your team from nothing to something in no time flat.
Overall athlete, I can see Serena on that. Also can see Ali, Phelps in that conversation. But what about Bo Jackson? He was one of the only people ever to be in the all star game for two major sports leagues. That’s gotta be something
I would say Michael Phelps. The athlete with the second most medals has 18 medals. Phelps has TEN more than her, with 28. Additionally, he has 23 (!!!) gold medals, second place only has 9 (!!!).
He’s also the only swimmer in the top 10 all time medal count. Most are Norwegian skiers or Soviet gymnasts. The next swimmer is in 12th place with 12 medals.
Swimming is a bit unfairly weighted for medal count, though. Lets see how well you do at this stroke… OK, now this one… OK first stroke at double the distance… second one at quadruple the distance… OK, how about this time you just do a different stroke every length of the pool. Gymnastics has an awful lot of opportunities for medals, too, but simply doesn’t hold a candle to swimming.
History is filled with almosts.
With those who almost adventured, who almost achieved, but ultimately, for them it prove to be too much.
Then, there are others.
The ones who embrace the moment, and commit.
And in these moments of truth, these men and women, these mere mortals, just like you and me, as they peer over the edge, they calm their minds and steel their nerves, with eight simple words that have been whispered by the intrepid since the time of the Romans.
Tom Brady kisses his son on the lips.
No debating Brady is the most the most successful quarterback of all time.
However, if I was starting a team from scratch he’s probably not my first choice for under center.
Wins and championships are team stats. Brady managed to play forever because his style doesn’t age. He played like a 35 year old vet when he was 24. Originally he embraced the Belichick/Weis system where not making a mistake is superior > making plays. Eventually Belichick embraced Brady’s ability to read defenses as the system.
Other quartebacks just did more at the position even if they didn’t win as much. Guys like Marino, Rodgers, Manning, Montana… they did more with less, or were more talented passers, or they changed the way we view a quarterback’s responsibilities.
It’s not hating, it’s not trolling, and it’s not being intentionally contrarian to say this. I always feared Peyton Manning more than I feared Brady, but I feared the Patriots more than I feared the Colts.
To make a comparison to basketball, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had a more successful career than Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. The latter two get brought up in GOAT discussions far more often than Kareem despite their career accomplishments being demonstrably short of his.
Adjusting for era, I still say Dan Marino is the best passing QB of all time. To put up those numbers in an era that didn’t favor the QB like it does now was absurd. Not his fault the Fins always failed to support him.
To put it in baseball terms, Brady is Cy Young. He is the greatest winner of all time, and played so long that he set records beyond reach. His name is synonymous with the sport. But if I want the best QB (or pitcher) for my team for one season, there’s a bunch of other guys better.
I agree with this. In the eye test, Marino could do things no other QB could. Manning was the only other QB that came even somewhat close.
This is not to detract from Brady, but that 00-04 Pat D and Vinatari helped loads. His career really took off in 06 with Moss coming into town. Give Manning Bellichek and Brady Dungy/Fox/Mora and who would have more rings? It is a fair question.
Yep. It’s why I can’t stand the smooth-brained pats fans that want Belichick fired and believe he’s a bad coach because they *checks notes* only won 10 games with a rookie QB?
Cut them some slack, you accumulate A LOT of fairweather fans during almost 2 decades of domination, theres more than one generation (as in Gen-Z, Millenials, etc) that never had to experience the Pats being bad or struggling for success….
Could be. Marino deserved better.
You were way too kind to Ben’s physique in that first panel
I am 100% on the conspiracy theory that Alex Guerero was prescribing Brady with some illegal drug that kept him operating at HoF levels into the 40s. I refuse to believe that Brady is the ONLY QB that manages his nutrition well enough to not have his play fall off after 39 years of age. There’s some Lance Armstrong BS going on here.
Okay, but consider the following:
Peyton Manning: serious neck injury
Brees: serious shoulder injury
Roethlisberger: serious elbow injury
Favre: chronic hip condition + alcoholism
All of these guys, who were Brady’s contemporaries, probably could’ve played well into their 40s had it not been for injuries or conditions that diminished their abilities late in their career.
Meanwhile, Brady has only suffered one significant injury, and that was one that didn’t really impact his ability to throw the ball or read a defense. On top of that, he developed a tendency to turtle up to avoid big hits during the second half of his career.
I would expect guys like Rodgers, Wilson and Stafford, who have similarly been mostly healthy, to play into their 40s as well.
Well, Mannings career is over after 2012 if not for large ammounts of HGH allowing him to make a record time recovery and boosting his physique for the years to follow. When the whole HGH story with his wive came out in 2014 and he had to stop taking it….. we all know he all of a sudden looked like a total shell of his former self in 2015 so he might not be the best comparison here.
Also im gona lean myself reeeeal far outa window now but mark my words, Stafford is gona fall of a cliff in his late 30s, that dude was most definitly NOT “mostly healthy”, he took a ton of hits and played trough a lot of injuries. Also Wilson might be up in the air too, a lot of his play still depends on his quickness & mobility so we gota wait and see how/ if he adapts once those are starting to fade.
I know this *probably* wasn’t the reason, but I like to think that he called it quits this year just to fuck with Big Ben
Not the biggest Brady fan, but there are two things I respect about his decision:
– the Big Ben Appreciation Party is canceled (haha)
– He could have announced his retirement at the end of (any) season at the beginning of said season, prompting a fawning GOAT Debate / Worship Tour during his entire final year. Thankfully we were spared that nauseating circus and he bowed out more-or-less gracefully.
I was about to comment that 🙁
The ultimate test would be having them trade places. Brady in Indianapolis and Peyton in NE. My impressions is that Brady would have retired winning 2, maybe 3 rings. And Peyton would have retired winning 4, maybe 5 rings.
But things turn out the way they do and the rest is mere speculation.
Brady literally won a Super Bowl playing under Bruce Arians…
Sure. And maybe he could have won a couple more with him. Certainly not 7.
Tom Brady can beat Father Time but he can’t beat Von Miller lol
And he’s already talking about unretiring lmao
I think he was trolling everyone with that “unretire” talk.
If you actually think that he’s the best quarterback ever in terms of ability, then you have the worst case of Stockholm syndrome I’ve ever seen.
Brady is absolutely the most successful quarterback, but between Rodgers, Manning, Mahomes, and Marino, he’s definitely not even in the top three when it comes to how well he played the position. I’d be willing to give him #5 overall.
I wouldn’t include Mahomes in there. He’s only had 4 years, so to be considered a top talent, you’d need to be absolutely insane in that short span to be considered a great.
As a guy from Australia who absolutely knew nothing about the NFL but decided to get into it anyway when the 49ers undertook the Jarryd Hayne experiment, watching him and the Pats complete 28-3 the next year was the magic switch that made me truly understand how great the sport could be. To think he dominated for another 5 years after that and padded his legacy with an extra few layers of Teflon. Good luck in retirement Brady and thanks for keeping me entertained for the last few years!
The only way Brady stops being the GOAT is if Patrick Mahomes winds up playing in like eight more Super Bowls.
I still hold a bit of a grudge courtesy of the 8th grade math project and having the Rams that year, but as a fan of the sport, I’ve come to have a lot of respect for Tom and what he’s managed to pull off. Crazy ride from a 6th round pick. Football won’t be the same these next few seasons, at least.
We actually DID get a taste of Brady with a dead arm in his last couple seasons in New England. It was especially clear during that loss to the Titans.
It’s just that then his arm became undead in Tampa the next year
Hi people from the future! This is a comic made during the first 39 day retirement of Tom Brady. Gaze upon it as a historical artifact
And watch as he does this like three more times.