LeSean McCoy versus Pro Football Focus
A little tidbit of news happened earlier this week concerning LeSean McCoy being angry that Pro Football Focus didn’t rank him top 100 in their arbitrary rankings list. It was a minor squibble that got a small debate going about whether you can accurately judge football if you haven’t played it. It came and went with little fanfare because currently the country is trapped in a groundhog day cycle of waking up, being flabbergasted by something our new president did or said, and spending the rest of the day freaking out and wondering if we’ll all burn in nuclear hellfire or if this is the thing that finally sinks him. It’s hard to care about LeSean McCoy throwing a twitter tantrum when we are in a constant state of panic for our actual lives.
First things first: LeSean McCoy is a noted bitter angry dumb dumb who doesn’t think really hard and gets in feuds with people for small reasons and he is also a bad tipper. He’s a great football player but seems like a douche. He also 100% would have said nothing had PFF ranked him higher. Players always think they should be rated higher, this is like pro sports ego 101, and the fact that LeSean felt he should have been ranked higher shouldn’t have even been the small story it was. But, you know, offseason.
However, I think he’s right. Pro Football Focus kinda sucks.
I will start by giving PFF credit where it is due. They have a system, they use it, they analyze film and do their best (I hope) to bring a unique statistical edge to football analysis. They are probably the only place online where lineman play gets really any credit or analysis. But honestly, PFF is still kind of terrible. The system they use is studying each player on each play and then assign a grade to that player. The play grades get averaged into game grades, season grades, etc. All very speadsheety. It sounds great on paper. Numbers never tell the whole story in a game with as many complex variables as football, and I’ve always valued film study over just crunching numbers, a big problem I have with Football Outsiders, but I’ll get to that.
The issue is, PFF churns these grades out really fast, like disturbingly fast, and there is no way they employ enough people to give each player the study they deserve. Another larger problem is that they are essentially assigning values to subjective opinion, opinions which are questionably informed. These analysts are judging players based on what they think the player is supposed to do on any given play. They don’t know the player’s actual assignment or job. They are educated enough to make reasonable guesses, but it still ultimately comes down to subjectivity. And they are judging every player on every play, and the grades come out the next day. There’s no way a lot of these aren’t phoned in or affected by bias. It leads to some baffling situations. I remember a game when Eli got a positive grade. He had a mediocre game at absolute best, by both the eye test and the numbers. Something like 200 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, around that. The next week he played great, 400ish yards, 3 TDs, no INTs, but he actually got a lower rating that week because he had like 2 more 3rd down conversions or something equally minor. Basically, it’s an entire site of people throwing numbers in your face about who is good or bad but it has about the same value as Joe Fan next to you at the bar telling you who he likes more. PFF has more cred than that, but not as much as they’d want you to think.
There is a lot of value in PFF’s work, but it needs to be taken with grains of salt and anyone who swears by it and throws PFF rankings in your face as some ironclad argument should probably be disregarded as a sheep. Baaaaaah
I also hate Cris Collinsworth for making it a thing I see on broadcasts now.
Pro Football Focus’s success has lead to one thing I enjoy, the founder of Football Outsiders being bitter about it. I think Aaron Schatz is a big annoying homer who started the site so he could invent a formula to statistically suck the Patriots off in an official capacity instead of just accepting his homerism, but on the whole I value their work more than PFF. FO is basically the opposite of PFF in that it focuses entirely on the stats and goes to extreme lengths to account for every variable that could happen. For example a 1st down pass is good. A 1st down pass on 3rd down is better. A 1st down pass on 3rd and long is even better. Etc. They will never account for every variable (how do you have a number for a WR running the wrong route on an INT, really, which is where PFF’s method typically gets it right, or more right) but I appreciate that they try. I also like that FO focuses more on the team aspects of football, which is closer to what football is, than PFF’s individual focus.
The issue with FO is that they won’t release the formula. We’re told the formula accounts for all these things, but we don’t see the formula. I think Schatz (Who has admitted he had zero experience with statistics when he started the site) is afraid to release it to people because he knows it’ll get ripped apart and judged in all sorts of different ways and it’s his baby and he doesn’t want to have anyone point out the biases (he hates his biases being pointed out, he’s one of my few hate follows on twitter because I enjoy him being a baby about people calling him on it). But on the whole, I still place more value in what FO does, and now that Pro Football Focus sold out, FO is the cool street stat for hip in the know guys, so get on that train yo.
It’ll always be a personal opinion, but I will never put anywhere close to 100% faith in football statistics because I don’t think football is the kind of sport that can be defined by numbers the same way baseball is. Football is too complex with so many factors affecting every single play that trying to bring it down to a simple formula is a futile quest. Analyzing football will always be a good deal of subjectivity over anything else, and stats serve a better main supplement to arguments than the crux of one. It’s why we can still argue over who the best is and never have a true answer.
Outside Trent Dilfer, of course.
1. I’ve been skeptical about PFF for a while. My skepticism moved to outright distrust this season when, during the Seattle/Arizona snooze-fest, they had Christine Michael ranked as the 5th (!) best RB in football.
2. I think FO’s DVOA system is good. As you say, the focus on ranking a team, rather than individual players, is more appropriate, and manageable, in football. DVOA gets a little dicey when they start breaking it down into unit rankings, but as a measure of offensive, defensive, and overall capability it generally passes the eye test. I agree that the major drawback is that they won’t release their formulas. That’s the main reason I don’t trust ESPN’s QBR.
3. FO’s system of assigning play grade’s sounds similar to a simpler (to its benefit, I think) system that Pat Kirwan lays out in his excellent book Take Your Eye Off the Ball. He defines five situations a play can start in (1st down, 2nd and short, 2nd and long, 3rd down, 4th down) and a yardage gain that makes the play a success. It’s not perfect for every single situation in a game as complex as football, but if you make note of it over the course of a game the winner usually performs better in this metric. I highly recommend this book if you haven’t read it, you’ll learn something from it, even if you’re a football expert.
4. Brock Huard and Dave Wyman do excellent weekly breakdowns of key offensive and defensive (respectively) plays from the Seahawks game for the MyNorthwest YouTube channel. They’re worth watching even if you’re not a Seahawks fan. They give insightful information that won’t get from random keyboard warriors.
5th best! Oh shit, I better change my mind about the Packers re-signing him!
Steelers Depot do excellent breakdowns of play – though of course similarly only focused on Steelers and their opponents.
Are Lindy’s Annuals still a thing over there? I used to read them back in the 90s, it kicked off my season
Where can I buy one of those Chip Kelly dolls? Also a Sex Cannon shirt.
I do like PFF rankings, they do show overrated and underrated players. But I would not use them solely in an argument. Maybe just to argue that Big Ben is the GOAT (don’t @ me)
PFF and FO are nice resources, but like anything else, they’re not absolute. Any stat in a vacuum is worthless, everything needs context, film, and other stats to add more information.
PFF stopped being decent when they sold out and replaced their signature stats with their dumb 1-100 rating.
No comic on Revis?
Replace the beats by Ray with Beats by Revis from that arena football comic
Its funny because Cris Collinsworth was a 1 time All-Pro and 3 time Pro Bowler who played in 2 super bowls durign his career. Sounds like more than a lick of football to me
Dave wasn’t critiquing Collinsworth’s football knowledge, he was saying screw Collinsworth for making PFT a thing
referring to McCoy saying PFF is just nerds who never played football in their life
From what I know Collinsworth is the only football player there, and he didnt start it, he just bought it, so it’s not his formula. I have no idea how much he’s actually involved but I doubt it’s as much as anyone who yells BUT COLLINSWORTH seems to think.
For the record, I’m going to make BUT COLLINSWORTH my new go-to fallback when I have absolutely no valid rebuttal to an argument.
pff, pwned
I dunno why but Collinsworth doesn’t look like he’s ever played middle school ball, let alone pro-ball. I know he has, but he just doesn’t have that look, you know?
Completely agree. Collinsworth looks more like a retired infielder than a wide receiver. You really have to see it to believe it.
That’s why I loved the Skeptical Sports blog. While he certainly did’t get it right 100% he did admit as much and always published his math.
Why is the Chip Kelly doll not wearing in a kkk hat?
I actually applied for an analyst position at PFF.
From everything that they described it sounds like they had a huge amount of people working on each game. From their perspective it takes about an hour or so to break down each game (mostly because once you cut out the commercials / stoppage games aren’t terribly long) so its understandable how they can churn them out so quick.
Stats have issues.
And a lot of what you say it’s true regarding PFF and FO.
But most stats pass the test that they are at least somewhat correlated with success.
The eye test seems worse most if the time. Specially from guys who call watching sportscenter “watching tape”. People spent years arguing that Cutler was elite, based on the “eye test” paired with some convenient excuse making, in spite of his stat line. Only after years of sucking did people started to realize that he is not that good a QB.
So yes, stats and stat models have their issues. But if you use them judiciously you are on better ground that guys arguing whose eye test is better.
So this weekend we learned in the NBA that Kyrie Irving thinks the earth is flat, amongst other conspiracies. Draymond Green appears to agree, as does maybe LeBron James.
What ridiculous conspiracy theories do NFL players believe?
I don’t think Lebron believes it, but he’ll do anything to make sure Kyrie stays with him in Cleveland. He’s the only help he’s got.
PFF and FO are still levels beyond standard “eye test” commentators and bloggers. And NFL’s own scouts speak highly of both sites and generally agree with what they say. Coming from someone who worked with these advanced stat methods for a year, its more reliable than not. Either way, people in general like to bash whatever they don’t agree with, usually because of their favorite player/person not being on someone else’s pedestal.
Collinsworth makes it a thing because he’s PFF’s majority investor.
The other big problem with PFF is that *they don’t know the call*. So except for super obvious mistakes (and not even always then) they have no idea if player X screwed up or if player Y f’d up and it only looks like player X screwed up.
so apparently you have Trump Resistance Disorder now? bye, The Draw Play.